Greetings, my peoples! Welcome to the first official post of the Wheel of Time Reread Redux! Today’s Redux post will cover “Ravens,” the prologue of From the Two Rivers: Part One of the Eye of the World.
All original posts are listed in The Wheel of Time Reread Index here, and all Redux posts will also be archived there as well. (The Wheel of Time Master Index, as always, is here, which has links to news, reviews, interviews, and all manner of information about the Wheel of Time in general on Tor.com.)
The Wheel of Time reread is also now available as an ebook series, except for the portion covering A Memory of Light, which should become available soon.
All Reread Redux posts will contain massive spoilers for the entire Wheel of Time series, so if you haven’t read, read at your own risk.
And now, the post!
Before we begin, a scheduling note: I’m sorry to have to do this to y’all basically immediately, but Labor Day vacation trip plans made months in advance cannot be denied, and thus there will be no Redux post next Tuesday. The blog will resume Tuesday September 9th. Yeah, I know the timing sucks, but it is what it is. We’ll get on an even keel here real quick, I hope.
Onward!
Prologue: Ravens
What Happens
Egwene al’Vere goes down to the Winespring Water to fill her bucket. She is nine years old, and determined to be the best water-carrier ever for sheep-shearing day. Everyone in the village has turned out to help the farmers with the shearing, and Egwene hopes if she is good enough, they will let her help with the food next year instead of being a water carrier. She notices a large raven watching the men washing sheep in the river, and remembers uneasily the stories about how ravens were the eyes of the Dark One, but reassures herself there is nothing in the Two Rivers that could possibly interest the Dark One.
She watches Kenley Ahan get caught and scolded for trying to filch a honeycake, and then sees Perrin Aybara, a friend of Rand, and darts over to see what he is doing. He is with his family, meeting with Master Luhhan, the blacksmith, who she hears tell Perrin’s parents that he is “a good lad” and will do fine. Egwene watches him play with his sister Deselle and thinks that he is always so serious for a young boy. She is startled to note that there are maybe nine or ten ravens in the trees nearby, watching. Adora Aybara sneaks up on her and demands to know why Egwene is watching Perrin when “everyone says you’ll marry Rand al’Thor.” Flustered, Egwene moves off, and narrowly avoids her sister Loise seeing her; Egwene is annoyed that all of her sisters think she is still a baby.
She sees the Wisdom, Doral Barren, watching her apprentice Nynaeve al’Meara bandage Bili Congar’s leg. Doral checks the wound after Nynaeve is done and seems oddly disappointed by it. Egwene sees that there are dozens of ravens around by now, and yet none are trying to steal food from the tables. Nynaeve somehow knows Egwene is there without looking, and shoos her off; Egwene pretends that Nynaeve’s look doesn’t make her hurry. Wil al’Seen tells her where she can find Mat Cauthon and Perrin “taking a rest” behind the far pen. She sneaks up to find Mat and Perrin loitering with Dav Ayellin, Urn Thane, Ban Crawe, Elam Dowtry, and Rand al’Thor. She watches Rand closely.
She expected she would marry one day—most women in the Two Rivers did—but she was not like those scatterbrains she heard going on about how they could hardly wait. Most women waited at least a few years after their hair was braided, and she… She wanted to see those lands that Jain Farstrider had written about. How would a husband feel about that? About his wife going off to see strange lands. Nobody ever left the Two Rivers, as far as she knew.
I will, she vowed silently.
She reflects that Rand has always been nice to her, but she really doesn’t know much about him. She looks at his eyes, and thinks no one else in the Two Rivers has blue eyes. She hears Rand saying he’d like to be a king, and Mat hoots that he’ll be “King of the Sheep”. Rand retorts that that’s better than doing nothing, and asks how Mat will live if he doesn’t plan to work.
“I’ll rescue an Aes Sedai, and she’ll reward me,” Mat shot back.
The boys discuss how it would be possible to have an adventure in the Two Rivers, but then Dannil Lewin shows up to summon them to see the Mayor, Egwene’s father. Apprehensive that they are in trouble, they go, Egwene following. They find Bran al’Vere with Rand’s father Tam and Cenn Buie, the thatcher. Bran tells them he thinks it’s time to tell them the story he promised them. Mat demands a story with Trollocs and a false Dragon, and Bran laughs and says he should let Tam tell it then, to Egwene’s puzzlement. Tam says he’ll tell them a story about the real Dragon instead. Cenn Buie immediately objects, saying that’s “nothing fit for decent ears to hear”, but the others tell him he is overreacting, and he subsides reluctantly.
Tam tells the boys about the Age of Legends, more than three thousand years before, where there were great cities with machines that flew through the air, and no war or poverty or sickness anywhere, until the Dark One touched the world. The boys (and Egwene) jump in shock. Tam tells them that the world relearned war quickly after that, and the War of the Shadow eventually covered the entire world, with some of the Aes Sedai going over to the Shadow and becoming Forsaken.
“Whole cities were destroyed, razed to the ground. The countryside outside the cities fared as badly. Wherever a battle was fought, it left only devastation and ruin behind. The war went on for years and years, all over the world. And slowly the Shadow began to win. The Light was pushed back and back, until it appeared certain the Shadow would conquer everything. Hope faded away like mist in the sun. But the Light had a leader who would never give up, a man called Lews Therin Telamon. The Dragon.”
One of the boys gasped in surprise. Egwene was too busy goggling to see who. She forgot even to pretend that she was offering water. The Dragon was the man who had destroyed everything! She did not know much about the Breaking of the World—well, almost nothing, in truth—but everybody knew that much. Surely he had fought for the Shadow!
Tam tells them how Lews Therin gathered an army of ten thousand men and the Hundred Companions, and led an assault on the valley of Thakan’dar and Shayol Ghul itself. He says that every one of that army died, and most of the Companions, but that they got through to Shayol Ghul and sealed the Dark One up in his prison along with the Forsaken, and so saved the world. Confused, Egwene wonders how the Dragon saved the world if he also destroyed it. Perrin asks what exactly a dragon is, but Tam answers that he doesn’t know, and that maybe even the Aes Sedai don’t know. Then Bran declares they’ve had their story, and shoos them off back to work. Egwene considers following Rand, but decides she is not going to be that “goosebrained.”
Abruptly she became aware of ravens, many more than there had been before, flapping out of the trees, flying away west, toward the Mountains of Mist. She shifted her shoulders. She felt as if someone were staring at her back.
Someone, or…
She did not want to turn around, but she did, raising her eyes to the trees behind the men shearing. Midway up a tall pine, a solitary raven stood on a branch. Staring at her. Right at her! She felt cold right down to her middle. The only thing she wanted to do was run. Instead, she made herself stare back, trying to copy Nynaeve’s level look.
After a moment the raven gave a harsh cry and threw itself off the branch, black wings carrying it west after the others.
Egwene decides she is being silly, and gets on with her job. She has to carry water again the next year, but the year after she is allowed to help with the food a year early, which satisfies her greatly. She still thinks about traveling to distant lands, but stops wanting to hear stories from the grown-ups, and so do the boys.
They all grew older, thinking their world would never change, and many of those stories faded to fond memories while others were forgotten, or half so. And if they learned that some of those stories really had been more than stories, well… The War of the Shadow? The Breaking of the World? Lews Therin Telamon? How could it matter now? And what had really happened back then, anyway?
Redux Commentary
Some of you may be confused by this business about a prologue that isn’t “Dragonmount,” so the brief explanation is: in 2002, The Eye of the World was republished in a “YA-friendly” edition, which divided it into two books, From the Two Rivers and To The Blight. The YA books had larger print, some illustrations, and also a new Prologue for Part One, focusing on (as you see) Egwene as a child, about seven years before the start of the main story. Otherwise the text was identical to the original novel.
It’s probably ironic that the very first post of the Reread of the Reread is about material that I haven’t actually reread before, but it occurred to me that I never did cover the YA Prologue as part of the original Reread, and that if I were going to do so, this is the only logical point at which I could do it. Ergo, here we are.
It’s kind of funny, because one thing I was most definitely looking forward to about the Redux Reread is that I wouldn’t have to do full formal summaries anymore, aaaand here I am, doing one. Hahaha sigh.
In any case, rereading this Prologue now, post-AMOL, provides a fairly dramatic example of how very different rereading the early books is probably going to be now that I know the ending, because the main reaction I had to reading this was a sense of great sorrow.
Because now, of course, I know that while Egwene is absolutely going to achieve her ambition of seeing the world before she gets married, she also isn’t going to live past eighteen—or more than a few days past her own wedding day, for that matter. Because I know that as of this prologue, she already has less than a decade left to live.
Shit, I’m kind of tearing up a little about that all over again, right now. I’m such a sap.
But you know, the older you get, I think the more tragic it seems when you think about people dying that young, even if they are only fictional characters. Because I think about how little I had done, and how laughably little I understood about myself and the world when I was eighteen, and how much more—how much exponentially more—I got to do and learn in the *mumblety* years since then, and for anyone to be denied the chance to have that is just, well, tragic.
Granted, I am well aware that Egwene got to pack a hell of a lot more living and learning and doing into her eighteen years than I will ever get (or so I devoutly hope, actually, because “going through an apocalypse” is definitely not on my list of life ambitions), but I think that only makes the fact that she died even more upsetting. Because if she had achieved that much by eighteen, what could she have done if she’d lived? Especially considering her actual expected life span would have been in the neighborhood of six hundred years, assuming she un-Oath-Rodded herself somewhere down the line?
(Wow, that sounds dirty. Heh.)
So yeah, it’s sad. It’s great that her death achieved so much and had so much meaning, because arguably she saved the world just as much as Rand did, but I still would have preferred it if she’d lived. It’s probably a fair bet that most of my interactions with Egwene as a character throughout this Redux Reread are going to be flavored with that same sense of sorrow, so be prepared.
Aside from that, though, the prologue was actually fairly fluffy, as these things go. It provided some nice setting and atmosphere to the Two Rivers, and introduced the reader in a lightly oblique way to Our Heroes, and provided some good foreshadowing for the events to come, all without being strictly necessary to the story to provide any of that.
I’m not sure, of course, how much of my semi-dismissal of this prologue as “fluffy” is due to the fact that I never originally read the story with it tacked on to the front. It’s probable that those who read the story this way from the start would not feel, like I do, that it seems a little shoehorned in there, because how you initially are introduced to a thing nearly always leaves a much stronger impression than any alterations or adaptations of it you encounter later on.
(This is why, when books are made into movies, I generally make a point of either making sure I read the book version first, or of watching the movie(s) and then never reading the book version at all. I’m still undecided about which one I’m going to do about The Maze Runner, for instance, but at this point I’m probably never going to read the rest of the Hunger Games trilogy, because I’m enjoying the movies just as they are and don’t feel the need to screw with that.)
That said, I will admit that “Ravens” did provide a pretty nice segue into the actual Prologue of TEOTW, by setting up the questions about Lews Therin and how he could possibly be both the savior and the destroyer of the world. (Not to mention how the line about how “stories faded to fond memories while others were forgotten” made me smile. Parallel structure, yay!) And I did also like how well it immediately set up Egwene’s character as an Ooh Ooh Girl (she will be the BEST water-carrier, dammit!).
It’s interesting that this is the only place we get names for Egwene’s sisters. Evidently they were really not much a part of her life as she got older, because they never got more than a passing mention in the later narrative, but I guess that makes a certain amount of sense considering how much older than her they are and how much Egwene seems to dislike them. Still, it’s a little odd that they never make an appearance (at least as far as I recall) in Perrin’s perambulations in Emond’s Field later on in TSR.
(That’s another sad-making moment in the prologue, actually: when Perrin plays with his sister and you know he’s never going to get to see her grow up. *sniffle*)
Also, it’s crazy, but I don’t think I really realized (or remembered, or whatever) until rereading this that Nynaeve is, in fact, an orphan. (I left it out of the summary, but Egwene specifically thinks about this when watching her with the old Wisdom.) That sort of genuinely shocked me, y’all. And at the risk of buying into some potentially offensive generalizations about abandonment issues, I think it makes her character make even more sense to me now than it did before. Huh.
I do have to admit, though, that Rand’s declaration here that he wants to be a king struck me as a little heavy-handed. I much prefer the far more subtle foreshadowing about Rand’s eventual kinging provided later on in TEOTW, when Rand discusses the vagaries of fate with Loial in Caemlyn. Oh well.
Mat’s line about rescuing an Aes Sedai, on the other hand, was just hilarious, because how many times did he end up doing exactly that, and getting the exact opposite of “no work” as a reward? Heh.
One other thing I particularly noted was Egwene’s awareness of, and eventual face-off with, the ravens, which was a very subtle foreshadowing to Moiraine’s later assertion in TEOTW that Light-side channelers could both sense the Dark One’s minions, and that they (the channelers) were anathema to them (the minions) to some extent. This was a detail that I think kind of got lost in the later books, but it was a big deal in the first book, so it was cool that it got incorporated here.
And amusing, that nine-year-old Egwene thought it was all due to her Withering Death Glare™. Oh, you Ooh Ooh Girl, you. *pats fondly*
And that’s about what I got for this. We’re back, kids! Ain’t it cool? Have a lovely Labor Day weekend if that’s your thang, geographically, and I will see y’all with more Redux Reread in two weeks! Cheers!
Yea! We are back! Re-read Redux – I like it. (Edit – and I got the “one-y”. In your faces, ValMar and Woof).
Couple of quick thoughts.
– OOG for the win!
– Why does Doral look disappointed. Was she expecting Nynaeve to magically heal it?
– Nynaeve may be an orphan but she was raised by her father, who taught her to hunt and track as good as anyone in the TR. He must have died fairly recently in story.
– Nynaeve knowing Eg was there without looking at her – healing creates a bond – throwback to EOTW.
– Mat’s prophecy about what he’ll do with his life – Hah, that was hilarious.
– Query why they’d be putting Egwene with Rand this early. I can understand having a connection seem implied a few years down the line but isn’t this a bit too soon to tell. Interesting.
– Un-Oath Rodding as sounding dirty….Well, perhaps she can borrow Elayne’s “hot rod” ter’angreal.
I thought that in TDR, Perrin mentions to Min that he had no sisters. This is just before Min gives Perrin the warning about running away from the most beautiful woman he will ever see. (Somehow, Perrin mistakes that warning to be about Faile — when in my opinion, it was regarding Lanfear. But we will get to that scene in due time. Unless, of course, Leigh, you keep taking vacations — even if they are well deserved :) )
I also find it interesting that a new reader who would read this version would get a PoV from Egwene before Rand, who is the main character in the series.
Something else I found interesting about this scene. At this point in time, Egwene is not all that interested in Rand. Maybe this is because she is only 9. But, from what I remember, I thought she was more interested in Rand in TEoTW. Of course, that could do with the fact that she was almost at the age where she and Rand were to be married.
Due we know how long it took from this scene from when Padan Fain spent his one year remaining in TR long after he normally would have left?
Thanks for reading my musings,
AndrewB
I read this prologue in the book store when it first came out. It was a cool little background scene. It really puts Tam in the spotlight for his knowledge, something that very few backwater villagers would know, or believe.
It is nice to be back!
Im wondering if we will get to cover The Strike At Shayol Ghul.
Lots of stuff that wasnt covered before!
I think it would fit nicely some where in the prologue.
I appreciate your note of history on where this passage comes from at the end. I kept reading the summary baffled that I had no recollection of this scene.
So, here I was, looking forward to this post so much I almost couldnt sleep last night, walking the good old memory lane of “How I met the WoT,” thinking about how did it feel to read the prologue, having no idea what comes next, and feeling slightly sad about the fact that Ive already read it all and there s nothing more… and Blood And Bloody Ashes there is another Prologue I ve never heard about!?!?!
I think the entire re-reread is going to be tinged with sorrow for me, just knowing the series has finally, irrovocably come to an end.
I also felt that much of “Ravens” was rather bluntly inserted, but I didn’t start with it there, so. Young Egwene is an adorable overachiever, and we can see where badass adolescent Egwene came from.
I had completely forgotten Matt’s “prophecy,” and I nearly did a spittake at my desk. Rescuing Aes Sedai and getting rewarded! With glares and sniffs most of the time.
@RobMRobM – That’s how I interpreted it. Donal is looking for further signs of listening to the wind and miraculous healing from Nynaeve.
Mat will get a chance to learn that a reward for a job well done is just a harder job. Unfortunately for him, he’ll be completely unable to avoid either the jobs or doing them well.
Thanks Leigh,
And so here we are again! Plus, something not from the original books; very nice!
I’ve actually never read this; just heard about it through summaries and mentions from other rereaders I believe, so I appreciated the Redux starting with this and us being able to get Leigh’s take on 9 year-old (I don’t’ think I remembered that part from previous mentions!) Egwene.
My reactions to Leigh’s Summary:
I like that this gives us more of an in-depth look into the family members of our 2 Rivers crew. Just a glimpse (from what I can surmise), but it adds to Egwene’s, Perrin’s (kinda sad as we know what happens) and Rand’s families (even though we get a lot more of Tam both in TEotW and in later books).
I also like the difference in tone this prologue appears to set for Egwene. In Eye of the World she (initially) seems to be more of a slightly-antagonistical-foil for our protagonist and his friends, until she begins to develop into her own character. Here, she is shown as very much her own person with her own hopes and dreams, bucking the norms of her village.
(I have to say that if the Eye of the World had started this way, it probably would have impacted how I viewed Egwene for the majority of the novel; this really expands her for me. Egwene still develops into…Egwene, so there is that, but I really do like how this section seems to start her character off as.)
I love that Tam tells the story of the War of the Shadow! Obviously, this information could not initially be introduced so early in The Wheel of Time because a lot of what makes WoT so special is the slow piecing out (and eventual figuring out) of what came before during the Age of Legends and the War of the Shadow. Still, it’s nice to “see” Tam telling a story to young kids about history that should be fairly (or at least somewhat) common and known in their world. I also appreciate that he leaves them wanting for more (no mention of how the Dragon destroyed the world; nice).
I’m now very tempted to go seek out this prologue and add it to my collection.
As to Leigh’s Commentary:
You know, I don’t feel so much sorrow about Egwene. Her dying granted her hero status in my eyes and reconciled (for the most part) a number of issues I had with her character. So as I have previously said, this prologue actually adjusts the initial impressions the reader is given of Egwene. Egwene wanted to leave the 2 Rivers, see the world and engage in adventures. And did she ever.
(“Un-Oath Rodded herself!” Hah! Had a nice laugh on that one!)
But I get where Leigh is coming from in regards to viewing Egwene with a sense of sorrow. If that is how Leigh covers the Redux, then so be it; it adds perspective.
And I totally agree how Ravens segues nicely into the original Prologue with Lews Therin. Tam tells part of the story and then the reader is subjected to more of the story from Lews Therin’s perspective.
Interesting observations by Leigh about Rand and Mat’s goals for the future. Poor Mat; other than in battle things never really worked out the way he planned or would like. :-)
Anyway, it clearly appears that I still have a few Wall of Texts left in me for this series. I’m sure I won’t be the only one…
ETA: Dorman@3 Re Strike at Shayol Ghul – What a great suggestion! Hopefully our fearless leader will consider it (if she didn’t plan to do so already)!
I bought the ebook copy of this book just so I could have the prolouge on my Kindle. I really enjoy it just for the glimpse of things from young Egwene’s perspective, even if some of the foreshadowing is a little heavy handed. Still, I liked the touches of Donal looking for Nyneave’s healing, and Nyneave knowing Egwene was there (due to the healing link).
Really wish we would have gotten that Tam prequel…
I also felt Perrin’s family was a lot sadder in retrospect, even sadder than Egwene. At least Egwene made a choice and did get to learn and have her adventures (although its truly tragic her life was cut short when she was at the peak of her game), but by all accounts, Perrin’s family died brutal deaths for no real reason, most of them at a very young age, before they were able to come into their own at all. It’s one of the darkest things in the series, imo.
Also, Leigh – you should reconsider the Hunger Games books, at least number 3! I wasn’t all that impressed with the 1st book outside of entertainment value, but the 3rd book blew me away and I think subverted a lot of expectations. You still have time to read it before the movie comes out ;) Especially as so much is in her head, I don’t know how the movie will handle a lot of it. Then again, the movie will probably have even more of a visceral emotional impact when it comes to certain scenes than the book will (since it will have the benefit of visual imagery and music), so it might be more ‘exciting’ to be spoiled that way.
Mat gets rewarded for his good deeds by the Pattern or Creator or whatever. He doesn’t regularly get thanked for his deeds, only Teslyn recognized his worth, but it’s okay, because the Pattern made him wealthy and gave him what he needed.
Sometime between this prologue and the rest of the narrative, Rand loses the wish of being a king, and Mat loses the desire to ever rescue an Aes Sedai. Enter: coronations and rescues galore! And I think it’s funny that in the finals chapters of the series, Mat ends up as general of the Seanchan armies and father to the heir, while Rand sneaks off, without any “work” to do.
Eh, I never liked this additional prologue. IIRC, it contradicts a few things in TEoTW – like commonly held Duopotamian opinions on the Dragon and how it is “indecent” to even talk about him in any detail.
Perrin’s sisters too, yep. Though it is possible that they are also mentioned in TSR, despite Perrin’s words to Min, I don’t really remember.
The whole situation with Egwene’s sisters is odd as well, but it is mentioned in the novels proper that she is the youngest of 5, though we never see her siblngs nor hear about them dying or moving away.
Also, why on earth would everybody try to couple Egwene with Rand at ages 9 and 11 respectively?! While neither are paricularly taken with each other (whereas later Egwene would stake her claim)?
And if the Shadow is aware of TR that early, how come that Moiraine and Lan were in time (if barely) 7 years later?
Not to mention that the original prologue is just so much stronger – one of the most poignant pieces in all the series, in fact. Oh, well…
Anyway, it is great to see the early books dissected in detail, since early -on the original Re-read was quite laconic with them. Also, I found and caught up with it only towards the end of TFoH, so this is an awesome seond chance for me ;).
Am I the only one who just hates this prologue? Maybe because it came out when I was already so deep into the books or just the heavy handedness of it. It seemed wrong (or revisionist history) to me that Tam tells the kids a story about LTT and the war of shadow, because all other indications up to this point were that people had completely forgotton about the age of legends and the war and the Dragon was universally loathed. I was never a big Egwene fan but she redeemed herself in the last books to me. Here in this chapter she is a little over the top. before this YA version came out, I never really got the sense that Egwene had dreams of leaving the two rivers etc. – just seem out of left field in this chapter.
maybe offtopic… didnt this come out around the same time as the RPG? I remember the RPG having a lot of this extra detail about the two rivers in it.
Isilel @12. I didn’t mind the prologue but it is odd all the ravens watching the events. If they had a strong suspicion something was up, they would have wiped out the TR to avoid trouble. Agree it doesn’t make logical sense. Also, Tam and Abell are very aware of ravens as sign of Dark One in TDR – don’t they know it here too? Why isn’t Tam shooting them?
Oooh, Leigh pulls a fast one. Or did I just miss something about starting with From the Two Rivers instead of TEotW? Oh, well. It is what it is. Crap, I don’t even own a copy of FtTR. Do I need to pick up a copy of the book…or is it only the prologue that’s different from or an addition to TEotW?
Never having read this prologue before, I also find it really cool that Tam is the one to tell the kids about LTT and the War of the Shadow. Has a similar air to Bilbo at the beginning of the FotR movie telling the little hobbit kids about the trolls– Tam sees the story as entertainment, a piece of ancient history, with no way to know that it’s going to turn around and become relevant to all of them in, if you think about it, not that long a stretch of time.
Also, wah, Egwene. :(
@15 – New prologue is only thing that is different.
I should note for all that a graphic novel was created of EOTW and it includes the Ravens chapter. Tor.com did a free preview of the gorgeous art work, and it should be searchable on this site.
I’ve never read this particular prologue either, but it brings to mind something that’s always plagued my mind regarding this series: Tam, Bran and Haral. They seem to be in cahoots, not quite as if they know everything (as is shown they don’t), but as if they’ve been expecting events to play out as they did. They seemed too level-headed and experienced for people (excepting Tam) who don’t seem to have left the Two Rivers. There’s a story with those three that I think is a shame we’ll never get to hear.
This was awesome! I totally forgot that there was an “add-on” prologue out there then immediately remember Leigh mentioning it before and telling my husband we have to find it (which never happened)
So, thanks for agreeing to do this Re-read redux temporal loop thing!
RobMRobM @1 I took it that Doral was disappointed because Nynaeve did well, maybe even better than Doral could have done. You know how jealous Aes Sedai, er, Wisdoms are of each other.
Welcome back, Leigh. Tuesdays bare much more fun now.
Secher@18 – Yes, Egwene’s father does seem fairly knowledgable or worldly compared to most of the Two Rivers Folks. Same with Tam and Abell Cauthon. We know Tam has seen a lot of the world, and Abell has probably experienced a bit through his horse-trading, but (to my recollection) we know very little about Bran al’Vere’s life other than mayorhsip and running the inn.
Of course, running the inn would likely expose Bran to a vast array of characters and he probably hears a number of stories from his customers.
But there could be even more to his character; maybe we’ll find out more when the WoT Companion book comes out November 2015.
YES! We have the re-reread. I thought the story of Ravens was good, and liked the foreshadowing of what is to come in the next few years. It did give me a new appreciation of Egwene, since she did come across as overbearing in TEOTW. It seems that she was always ambitious and wanting to give her all in anything she did, which ties to what Rand said about her a few times in the series.
Thanks Leigh, and I second the motion of doing a re-read of The Strike at Shayol Ghul. it was in the Big White Book that Tor released just after Path of Daggers came out. The artwork was iffy, but it provided a lot of back story on all of the lands, people, and history of WoT.
@22 – on this blog, we use the moniker BBoBA (Big Book of Bad Art).
So I read this for the first time about a month before AMoL. Someone on a different list posted link. It was great to finally read it after hearing about that “Ravens” prologue for so long and thinking – what are they talking about.
But as you say Leigh, some things are handled with much more of a heavy hand. Guess it’s the whole “for YA” thing. Or almost for the 12 year old crowd.
Good point about her sisters, which I never really thought about. Guess only Mat’s sister gets any real screen time.
Now onto read the comments!
Oh boy! And…away we go!
I was reading along wrinkling my brow, thinking, “I haven’t lost that much memory, surely. I have no recollection of this.” Thank you for sourcing it, so I don’t feel so dumb. Never seen it before!
I do find it odd that the first character we are introduced to here is Egwene. Of course she’s a major player, but not the “Hero. And Rand declaring he wants to be a King seems out of character to the Rand we meet a few pages later. Loved Mat’s declaration! LOL. Right, Mat.
I really liked Tam’s story. You immeditately get the sense that Tam’s been around the, er, block, so to speak, and knows things. Just a hint of that. More to come when the sword is introduced. It provides a sense of recent “history”, and fleshes Tam out a bit, as more than just Rand’s father.
The introduction of Egwene here was a nice foreshadowing of her desire to leave the Two Rivers, which is not something I sensed from the origial prologue. This makes me like her better than I did at the beginning of TEotW, where I thought both she and Nynaeve were a big pain.
I too felt more sadness for the mention of Perrin’s family, and their senseless murder, than I think I will going forward for Egwene’s short but very important and fulfilling life.
Logically, the Ravens watching these kids 7 years before Moraine gets there with Lan makes no sense. *shrug*
Is this a separate book? Or are we just covering this new prologue?
Enjoy your break Leigh!
RobM^2 @17
Thanks for the reply! Strangely enough, I figured that out too once I actually read Leigh’s post. Heh. Congrats on the one-y! I grabbed them on both the WoR re-read intro and prologue, so I feel your glee (but nobody else really seemed to care). Good points in your @1 comment.
Dorman @3 (and Leigh)
I’d also like to see a re-read blog on TSaSG. Wonder if everyone has read it.
Re: Ravens
I have mixed feelings, not having read it previously. On one hand, it seems like retconning with respect to TEOtW and Dragonmount. OTOH, I enjoyed Tam’s story and the glimpse of life in the TR, but it just comes off as out of place if one didn’t start out with this version from the get-go (IMHO). And Isilel @12 brings up some excellent questions. Just sayin’.
Edited for dumb stuff.
Tek @25
Just the addition of this prologue.
AndrewHB @2: That was a mistake in the original version of TDR. It has since been corrected; my Kindle version has the following:
@25 – Tek – what happened was that the publisher wanted to make EOTW friendlier to young readers. As Leigh noted, they split EOTW into two shorter books with cute new covers and added the Ravens prologue.
I’m on the fence with this additional prologue. I think it’s kind of cute, but also heavy handed. I would like to know if splitting the book and this prologue actually had an impact on how many YA readers this series attracts. My friends and I started these books the summer after grade 6 and had made our way through the currently published 6 books in time for the 7th to come out the following spring and were all sufficiently hooked as it was.
Add me to the contingent of WoT fans who find this new “prologue” jarring (and this is the first time I’ve encountered it). Not least the whole issue of prepubescent Rand al’Thor declaring that he’s going to be a king, which is an uncharacteristically egotistical and arrogant attitude for the simple farmboy we were introduced to in the first chapter of The Eye Of The World. Who was gobsmacked at the prospect of being a king, and spent most of the first three installments of WoT running away from it.
The thing with the ravens also seems to clash with what was revealed of the Shadow’s search for Rand in The Eye Of The World. At the very least, it suggests that the Shadow knew where Rand was – and roughly which one of the youths of Emond’s Field he was – well before Fain was dispatched. Which makes one wonder why the Shadow even bothered with Padan Fain at all, and didn’t just dispatch the Fades and Trollocs to wipe out Emond’s Field right then and there.
It’s also something of a literary spoiler, in the way that it indicates that Tam was more than just a simple farmer well before we got around to discovering that in the books. Actually, this whole tacked-on, after the fact “prologue” seems like a spoiler…right down to nine-year-old Egwene chasing off ravens with a glare.
Hi all – to see the Ravens graphic novel excerpt (first 10 pages), search tor.com for “dragonmount” – as the comic’s title is Dragonmount # 0. There is both an early black and white version and a colored/lettered version. Pretty cool stuff.
Is that supposed to be Moiraine and Lan on the cover of FtTR? If so, why is Lan on a white horse and Moiraine on a brown horse. Mandarb is a black horse and Moiraine’s horse is white.
Thanks for reading my musings,
Andrew
@Rich B: “Here in this chapter she is a little over the top. before this YAversion came out, I never really got the sense that Egwene had dreams
of leaving the two rivers etc. – just seem out of left field in this
chapter.”
In chapter 3 of The Eye of the World, Egwene specifically tells Rand that she wants to leave the Two Rivers. She says that she intends to be a Wisdom and that you don’t have to be the Wisdom for your own village. She says she might go be Wisdom somewhere else and says (just like in “Ravens”) that she wants to see the places in stories. It’s very much in character for Egwene that she hoped to leave the Two Rivers someday and I don’t think it’s “retconned” in at all.
For those who not have access to the descriptive Egwene Prologue, it is accessible at WattPad:
http://www.wattpad.com/78706-jordan-robert-wot-prequel-earlier-ravens
I Googled WOT Prologue and found it, so just had to share!
I think one of the most important functions for the new prolouge is it establishes early that Egweene is a central independant part of the story not just tacked on to be Rand’s ‘Luv Interest’ some thing that is central to the over all theam of the work.
I had never read this until today and to be blunt, it reads like fan fiction. I don’t think it’s consistent with the rest of the story, particularly the apparent unusual attention of the ravens that then did nothing for seven years?
Rand is clearly joking when he talks about being a king but it’s still all a little clumsy.
I do quite like this one comment though: ”
Rand’s father glanced up from the sheep he was bent over, and caught Rand’s eye with a smile that made Rand, at least, seem less like a heron ready to take flight.”
I did wonder about why there was a Dragon in the world of WoT, when there didn’t seem to be any actual dragons. Should we take it that there were dragons at one time? Or was Lews Therin’s title derived from the fantasy literature of his age?
Well, add me to the list of people who are a bit discombobulated by this prologue. I haven’t read the actual prologue, just Leigh’s summary, but I may read it at some point (thanks to WDWParksGal for the link @34). But I don’t think it fits that well, it seems out of place (specifically Rand’s kingship aspirations, the presence of DO ravens so many years before Padan Fain alerted the DO to Rand’s presence, and the talk of good ole’ LTT of the AOL). The characterizations are consistent with the main series, though. I fully confess (again) that I was never an Egwene fan, so starting the series off with the OOG just seems off to me, though maybe that’s because I never read it before. Rand is the main protagonist, the series should start with him (well, after the prologue with his ancient alter ego, LTT).
I have to say, the ravens didn’t seem that incongruous to me. I don’t think Padan Fain would have been searching completely at random, for one thing, and for another, the presence of the ravens is a sign that the Dark One is trying to find the Dragon. We know from New Spring that the search has been going on for years, so why wouldn’t there be ravens?
That said, I’m not a fan of the new prologue, mainly because I think that the original prologue did such a fantastic job of introducing the story. I don’t mind this on its own merits, but I agree that it seems unnecessary as a prologue.
Well, add me to the list of “Do not like this prologue” too. After being excited about there being another short piece of WoT I haven´t read, I started thinking of What If. What if I discovered WoT starting with this prologue instead of the original one? Because that prologue made me want to read the whole thing after only few sentences. It is a perfect start. This? I would probably return the book back to the shelf and left the library empty-handed that day sooo long ago. Wow. Now I´m trying to imagine my life without WoT and it´s totally creeping me out.
*raises hand* Hi, my pseudonym is AeronaGreenjoy and I am obsessed with Shadowspawn. Having discovered Leigh’s blogs (initially the wonderful Read of Ice and Fire) long after everything I enjoyed (i.e. not AMoL) had been covered, I’m excited to join the WoT Re-Read now!
@34: Thanks for the link! I remembered nothing about this prologue except Tam saying “A Trolloc can rip a man apart with his bare hands” — emphasis mine, the only Trolloc not referred to as “it” — but aparently I’d misremembered even that, since he did say “it.” :-P The chapter is otherwise fun, though, full of the mundane details that make this series so rich.
@32: The man in the picture is Rand, with red hair. The woman is Egwene or Nynaeve; I don’t know which. Here’s the full cover image:
http://www.keeganprints.com/StarscapeWoT.htm
“Keep lying, and Semirhage will come after you.” Anyone knowing anything about Semirhage should find that a terrifying threat, even when she was assumed to be imprisoned.
I’m with the few people who didn’t like the YA prologue. It just doesn’t feel right to me, and seems very contradictory with some of the scenes set in TEotW and even later in the series. Tam’s story in particular spoils so much of what the main characters eventually learn the slow hard way that I can’t believe the editors allowed it. It feels like it came from a different universe or something. Bugs the hell out of of me.
So we’re starting WAAAAAY back.
I strongly disliked this prologue, and the reason was Tam’s story. It’s too right. It’s not consistant with the whole “history becomes legend becomes myth” bit that we get at the beginning of each book. At this point, the idea seems to be that the story of the Dark One’s escape and sealing should be well into legend at least, but Tam is reciting the facts as though he was there. It’s inconsistant with everything else we learn about what’s known, and particularly what’s known in the Two Rivers, about the previous age, and throws everything off balance from the beginning.
Other than that, the characters were okay. Egwene was at her most “ooh ooh”, and her dreams of travel are consistant with her remarks to Rand later. Rand wanting to be a king was a little weird, but that can be chalked up to childhood fantasies, much like me proclaiming that I wanted to be a princess when I was 7. Mat’s statement was a little more jarring to me, but mostly because of the mention of the Aes Sedai; when an actual Aes Sedai shows up a few chapters later, most of the village, even the ‘good’ characters, are definitely afraid of her. Mat wanting to get his reward by rescuing a princess or something would probably make more sense.
I like it how you are so sorrowful about Egwenes death, but after reading that prologe, i for one cant wait
Leigh, thanks for mentioning Nynaeve was an orphan. I will add her to my list of Orphan Heroes:
Rand
Frodo
Harry Potter
Well, I won’t go on, but I’m sure you can all think of a dozen. Which leads me to the subject of The Orphan Hero. It’s an extremely common character. I’ve combed Joseph Campbell and I can’t seem to find him talking about it. Do any of you scholars out there have any references?
Thanks Leigh. It’s wonderful to have you back in my little world on Tuesdays. I missed you and the reread greatly.
I’m not a fan of this prologue. It was fine when I read it after I was already hooked. It came at a time when I was hungry for more. Like looking at old photos of my friends when they were younger. The original prologue is one of the best things I have ever read in my life. By the time I read about Lews Therin, The Dragon, discovering his murder of Ilyena and heard his cry “Light, forgive me! Ilyena!” was so moved by Jordan’s words that I was hooked. This chapter, while fine, lacked that punch. It was just old photographs.
.Ways @26: Yea TSaSG 1s a RJ short on how the bore was sealed.
I read it on the Dragonmount site not to long ago. Pretty informative about a time we dont know much about. Good read!
@46 Something might be in “Thousand faces of a hero”, but I´m not sure. I always thought it´s just easier to write this way: when the wizard appears in a sleepy village saying to some young boy: “Come with me, you´re gonna be the hero,” its easy with an orphan, probably even living with some unpleasant relatives, who wants nothing more than to get away. The relatives are OK with it, while loving parents most certainly wouldn´t be. Plus the mistreated orphan would be much better at handling the whole “Hero” thing, staying modest and all. And, there´s the wild card of not knowing who his real parents are, which can lead to so much fun later. I´ve been thinking a lot about this subject, so I just stop now before it becomes a book :)
Few things:
Just by summarizing, I think Leigh’s summary makes the prologue sound a little more heavy handed than it is.
The text specifically says that Rand is joking about being a king. He even makes a fake little bow and laughs. The boys are just BSing.
My impression (although I don’t think it’s specifically stated) is that the shadow had spies/ravens visiting most towns.
I’m in the camp that likes starting with the original prologue better, but I can understand why this was added for YA. YA typically tries to use characters that can hook in the younger readers, and the original prologue goes on for a long time without a character for a young readerto identify with.
I agree that the ravens are probably on an initial search. They do not appear to be paying specifc attention to Rand or the boys, more like looking at all of the young ones who might be in the right age bracket. This appears to be around 9 years before the start of Chapter 1. Fain is sent to the TR in about 6 years to see if he can identify the boys. So I find it plausable that many ravens are looking for possible candidates throughout RL.
I also would like to see us look at TSaSG. Please.
RobM @@@@@ 1
I am never a competition for the “one-sy”- simply a matter of time zones.
On less important things ( ;) ), I too find the prologue rather jarring. Leigh’s summary may make it seem more heavy-handed than it is and some things can be explained, like the ravens.
But Tam’s story was as if he was reciting from an ancient history text- the kind of which in Randland would have been extremely rare and of which contents very few people would be aware. Not to mention how revealing it is of stuff which for much of the start of the series is deliberately concealed from the readers.
If Tam’s story had been about something else, e.g. Tar Valon/Dragonmount, it would’ve been better, IMO (foreshadowing of Rand’s origins maybe?). Otherwise we saw a nice little snapshot of the TR and its people and WOT main characters. Egwene was aways insufferable, it seems… ;)
@51: True that. I read “Drangonmount” in 2002, lost interest, and didn’t try again until 2004. A few chapters later, I was hooked.
Interesting to see how many people have an aversion to this prologue. I don’t think it holds a candle to the original – in fact, I think the original is pretty much one of the best pieces of opening words to literature, period. I also remember reading it for the first time as a junior in high school as my German teacher had reccomended it and lent me the book, a little skeptical of the series in general (what, is this some LOTR knockoff?) and then really having no idea what was going on in the prologue, but in a GOOD way – I just wanted to know more.
Still, I really enjoy this prologue just as an added bit of enjoyment from another perspective. I figured the ravens were kind of like the probe droids in Star Wars…just looking about everywhere.
OK, now I’ve read all 13 pages of Ravens…nifty little story, that, with the exception of Tam knowing fairly detailed stuff about events he should only have a vague impression about from myths and legends he might have heard while off fighting Aeil. It’s also too long for a prologue, in my opinion. And it just doesn’t fit well anywhere in the existing series. YMMV.
Having said that, I agree with JDauro @51. Ravens is more likely to attract YA readers than Dragonmount, which is to TEotW as the Prelude is to WoK. And that is complete and total immersion in a major epic fantasy work over very few pages. Shocking acceleration. Perhaps not a good introduction to a book unless you are a hard core, experienced SF/F reader.
I didn’t remember, until re-reading Dragonmount for the umpteenth time last night, that I had the same reaction to it during my very first read as I had to the WoK Prelude. Which was “Huh? I’m gonna have to re-read this a couple of time before I move on in the book.”
Even so, I like Dragonmount much better. Yes, I’m rambling. Moving on…
ValMar @52
The time zone differential seems to give you a distinct advantage when chasing the hunny, though. ;-)
I agree with those thinking that the ravens were likely scouting everywhere, not just here. Egwene likely draws a bit of extra attention for being a nascent channeler.
Even if they have narrowed the search down this far already, now is not the time to be sending in Trollocs and Myrddraal. After all, the shadow’s primary goal is to break and turn the Dragon, not to kill him outright; killing him is a fallback plan in case he can’t be turned. A raid at this point is too likely to kill those of an age to potentially be the Dragon.
Dorman @48
Just keep in mind that none of the BBoBA is strictly canon. TSaSG does seem to be a good representation, though.
Another bit of foreshadowing of Egwene’s destiny as an Aes Sedai.
KiManiak@8
I feel the same way. This extra bit does a good job of introducing Egwene’s character and it would have affected how I viewed her (a bit) when I first read TEoTW.
With that said, I side with those who think the additional prologue was not a good idea. The real prologue is such a powerful piece of writing and it sets the stage so perfectly while leaving so many mysteries to uncover.
I do think that J.Dauro@51 has the right of it: This was added specifically for the YA audience who need to hook in with characters their own age and may not have the patience for teasing out the story that we oldsters have.
Hi Leigh!
::waves::
Sooo,in anticipation of this post I read the opener… from the wrong dang book, thanks for the heads up.
Little bit of house keeping: for some of these posts I will be using my phone and it is smarter than me so there will be editing.
@apostIsawabove lisamarie- I’m with you, I want a Tam prequel. Otoh I am sure it would baffle the snot out of the average teen because suddenly Tam is the main cool guy.
Wait a tick… did I see Leigh mention a vacation? Road trip! Where are we going? I’ll bring the munchies…
I always pictured Perrin as the fat kid when he was younger. We do see sniffing at Ny and her bong with Eggy as she senses Eggy’s presence without looking.
@Robm… meh. I never had the first post. I always left those for the keener who got subsequently nuked when there was no content in said posts.
As a further FYI I am not going to be as prolific as before. Wife that rules me with an iron fist, and two pups, and two dogs. There is no contest with family time. Sleeping, well that is another story.
More to say but typing on this phone is taking away my will to live.
Woof™.
Sweet Jesus! That last comment almost went up in smoke. I think I broke the Internet again. A aah Tordot. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Woof™.
Edit: stupid#@@@@@#$ my bark is broken on this phone.
Finally… Not sure why it took all day to read the post and the comments, but it did. Not much left for me to comment on!
FWIW, after going back and reading the chapter rather than just the summary, to make sure I understood some things, I’m pretty sure Doral was disappointed that Nynaeve hadn’t Healed the wound. She took Nynaeve as her apprentice at age 14, when most others thought she should have chosen someone older. (BTW, Nynaeve was “a recent orphan” at that time. Looks like her parents died when she was 13 or 14 – plenty of time to have learned a fair amount of woodsmanship from her father.) In any case, the Wisdom knew that Nynaeve could “listen to the wind” and that she would be one of the best; I’m pretty sure when Mistress Barran unwinds the bandage and looks at the gash, it’s because she was hoping to find it Healed. She’d already known that Nynaeve had a Talent, from the way she’d Healed Egwene.
Count me with those who think this prologue is a nice little addition to the canon. (I’m assuming there are some…) I don’t know that I really love it as a first taste of WoT, but then it wasn’t my first taste. For what it is (nicely addressed by J. Dauro) it works, and it gives a few added bits of character background. I find it perfectly consistent in terms of characterizations; ymmv. The story Tam tells might be a tiny bit too complete for this Age, but the basic story is clearly known, if not well-known, in the wider world; it’s referenced several times in other books. Given that, I’m not surprised that Tam would know it. He seems the type to have picked up this kind of stuff.
Oh, yeah – in the full text, it’s fairly clear than Rand is joking about wanting to be a king, presumably to poke a little fun at Mat having said that he wanted to run off and never have to work.
For the longest time on Wednesdays, it was almost a ritual to open my bookmarks and click “Wheel of time reread” to check out the latest post. I hadn’t removed that bookmark, and I’m glad I can go on clickin’ it each Wednesday again. (c:
The thing about rereads or rewatches is how much knowledge from later in the story can affect you. Before the final book, when I read about the characters I’d instantly have flashes of thought about their projected journey, how they’d kick arse in the future, or whatever huge development they’d have. After the final book, it would still be kind of the same, but now I’d also feel such fierce pride and sadness for Egwene (and similarly for other characters that don’t make it).
I think I’ve always considered this prologue to be a nice bit of exposition without, I guess, deconstructing it very far. That would mean I pulled in an impression of Egwene and a bit about the Two Rivers in general but didn’t expect it to contribute to canon much. I was aware of the things that jarred a bit but didn’t put much weight in them.
I wonder if it was due to having read this after having been involved in the books for quite some time?
I will say that it bolstered the impression that I already had of Egwene, that of a very driven young lady that not only wanted to see new lands but was going to pull every piece that she could learn out of it and use it to the max.
I know that only the boys were T’averen, but Egwene’s super power was a photographic memory and a very analytical mind. (except for her choice of boyfriend material.) Damn, I’m writing about her in past tense which makes me, no I’m not crying… just have something in my eye. No, I’m fine really.
Jeff S.
I am still just an egg
The series should start with the original prologue. Ravens is a nice extra that should be read when you already know the characters (maybe around book 3).
The Strike at Shayol Ghul is available here. I don’t think it is in the BBoBA (but I’ve only read that in German).
I not too fond of this prologue either, for the simple fact that it’s too YA-y (which is not YAY. Just saying…). It’s too explain-y, too exposition-y (okay I’ll stop now with the Adjectiving), which is fine for a YA novel, but for me as an OA kinda takes away from the experience.
Also it doesn’t feel as beautifully written and epic as the original prologue. Again, fine for YA but a bit misplaced in a non-YA novel which EotW is. But I’ll give it that it’s a nice addition re: Egwene’s character.
@37 AnotherAndrew
re: dragons
Why would there be any need for dragons to exist (or rather have existed) in Randland? We have a concept of dragons in the real world without them ever having existed. And since it’s been well established that Randland is future earth (our reality being the First Age), what we have here is simply the last remnant of our mythological creature.
I first came across the series via these ‘YA-friendly’ books. I was in my early teens then and they looked appealing enough.
So, this chapter was my first exposure to the series. I admit, I was a bit bored on my first reading and ended up having to start a few times before I really got into the book. It’s been a great journey since that point though.
Randalator
We do have the concept of dragons, and pretty much anyone you ask can describe a dragon. In RL, most do not appear to have a concept of dragons, other than “The Dragon destroyed the world.” As I remember, looking at the banner, almost no one identified it as a “dragon”, instead refering to it as a lizard or a serpent.
So I always find it a bit amusing. It is possible that in the AOL the concept of a dragon existed, and that this was overcome by the reality of The Dragon.
@65 – never stop being Randalator-y.
@67 J.Dauro
Sorta kinda. Way I see it, our mythological dragons became a more and more obscure concept over the course of the Second Age a.k.a. the AoL until it was mostly an item of heraldry by the end of the Age. By then it had been (probably exclusively) associated with Lews Therin to the point that it had become his official title.
Then over the course of the Breaking and with the massive loss of knowledge, our concept of dragons finally vanished altogether and all that was left was the title “The Dragon” referring to LTT and his banner, therefore named the “Dragonbanner”.
Until fairly recently in the narrative when, with the Dragon Reborn being all over the place (in more sense then one), people once again began to associate the name “dragon” with the unknown creature on his banner.
tl;dr
The meaning shifted from creature to person in the Second and Third Age and now at the end of the Third Age gently started shifting back again.
@68 RobM²
Don’t worry, that would be way too not-me-y…
Ways @@@@@ 55
True that. That’s what happened the other day in the intro post, somebody teed the hunny up at 5-6ish AM and it stood there waiting for me.
Re: the YA prologue- if you give it the courtesy of judging it by the standards of the rest of WOT- inevitably suffers by comparison with the rest of the story. IMO, if one doesn’t think so, it is a slight to RJ’s work (no mention by Brandon because he didn’t write this prologue so comparison with his portion is irrelevant).
But, as far as I understand it, we are not meant to judge it on the same level as the rest of WOT. It was written for YA readers.
Basically, IMO, if your are not YA and are starting the series for the first time, you must start with the original prologue and carry on from there. 3-4 books later you may spend a fun 15 minutes reading the YA prologue too (along with The Strike… and New Spring).
Starting with New Spring may bring different enjoyment from TEOTW onwards, but will take away another kind of pleasure too.
Huzzah, we have Redux!
Re Rand’s comments about wanting to be King, I agree it is a little eyeroll-worthy in its heavy-handedness, but I would not say it is out of character. I see it more as pre-adolescent whimsey….just a fleeting fantasy, not a sign of his true ambition.
Re the sorrow many feel in reading about Egwene. My feelings align with Tektonica @25 in that the Aybara family is a much sadder story.
As for this prologue in general, I think the one thing it brings is a sense of what tTR was like before it (and the world) gets flipped on its head. Remember, tTR was largely untouched for generations, but most of the narative proper takes place after it encounters Shadowspawn and Aes Sedai.
Leigh – you rock as always. Thank you again for doing this.
RobMRobM
We must remember that adulthood, signified by braiding hair in the Two Rivers isn’t so much about age as demonstrated maturity.So while all of nine years old, Egwene is closer to that braid than you would think. While Rand, at all of 11(?), would have already lost his mother but at the same time be more independent and therefore be the acknowledged leader of his little clique. Of course at this point, boys won’t be given as much of a choice about it.
Isilel @12
It’s kinda that. But having Tam tell the story and having others defer to Tam in the telling of it, kinda reinforces his status of being “in the know”, not to mention well-travelled. But at the same time, everyday interactions will still not be favorable for the Dragon, and it doesn’t stop others from hating him either, so the contradiction isn’t as big as you might think.
The ravens watching.. it’s not as if they’re seeing more. What would they be looking for after all? I’m sure the Shadow would already from previous wars know that the TR produces a higher than normal number of potential channelers. NOw that I think on it, that may well have served to camouflage Rand.
Rand saying he’ll be king, is a bit off character, but this is also Rand from a more carefree time, messing around with his best buds.
opentheyear @16
Yep. I suspect having Tam tell the story was to reinforce Tam’s only obliquely referenced status in the later series of being well-traveled.
Other items to take now:
Egwene’s angst at being treated like the child she is… Drat them all!
Egwene noticing that Tam had a look that made even the merchants’ guards look soft… Hidden badass hehehe…
Tam must be a really good story teller. He had that bunch of kids spellbound. They literally jumped at “the Dark One touched the World!”
Randalator@65: Well, yes; that’s why I said ‘the fantasy literature of his age’. But I do think that in a work of epic fantasy the obvious way of reading the name ‘Dragon’ is that it relates to actual dragons, so it’s a rather interesting twist if it turns out there never were any actual dragons in this world.
So, can we get a post about The Strike at Shayol Ghul in the next installment? There’s even other stuff to cover before we get back at the (true) prologue, like the Big Book of Bad Art. Maybe someday Tor.com will make a review of the official WoT game (a 1st person shooter released in the 90s) or the official soundtrack (not my cup of tea, I disliked it very much).
I agree that Ravens is somewhat jarring but I’ve always felt that the whole point was Tam’s story and everything else was created to justify its telling. There must have been some reason to add a new prologue and I wondered whether it was do deal with the very steep learning curve of the Wheel.
I first encountered tEotW as a free book that contained the first 18 chapters and no glossary. It was a most bizarre experience as so much we know comes from the glossary and not the text. For example, the first time it’s made explicit that the Dragon led the forces of the Light in the AoL is when they find the Dragon Banner, over 50 chapters in. Much of the other info contained in the Eye’s glossary doesn’t appear in the text until tSR. It may well be that RJ and the editors felt that the YA audience was less likely to read the glossary so the basic set up needed to be laid out before that. Cue Tam’s story.
Regarding dragons… there are real dragons in the story. They are just well disguised. If you are looking for large flying reptiles try saying To’raken very fast ten times. Geddit?
Keep at it Leigh.
LJ.
A couple of unstructured thoughts.
First – Egwene is just 9, too early to manifest any channeling abilities. So I’d expect all the bristling-dog and raven-detection effects to be mere foreshadowing, not something with an in-series explanation, no?
I also thought the prologue was a bit fluffy, but by the time I read it I was happy to get any new canonical material, so I was grateful for it. But, giving it a second thought, I think it’s a good idea for a YA novel. The transition between the original prologue and the first chapter is very abrupt – so much so that when I originally read it (aged 16) I wasn’t really able to process it, and didn’t understand many references to it throughout the first book or two. Only when I re-read it later did I appreciate its grandeur.
So what they’ve done here is to make the digestion easier by setting the stage more conventionally. Introduce the main characters, then have someone mention the names which will appear in the real prologue to anchor them in a bit of context, and proceed. It’s not a bad idea.
Apart from that, I also thought the perception of Aes Sedai/Dragon/LTT/Breaking was influenced by the later books, and did not fully match TEOTW. Particularly Aes Sedai – in TEOTW half the villagers think Aes Sedai serve the Dark One – why would Mat mention them in a context better served by a nobleman’s daughter?
Though “I’ll rescue a Princess” would have also been quite ironical, considering his rescue of Elayne in TDR… :)
Also, thanks for the generous welcome and good wishes from the previous thread. I’ve been away, but the re-read has not been wholly out of my mind.
… though I was sure the name would wind up being ‘The Re-Read Reborn’ …. :)
JonathanLevy @@@@@ 76
Good to see you around here. I had the same experience with the original prologue on my first read that you describe. Only years later on re-reads I actually understood what was going on or remembered what was in it.
I’m mostly ambivalent toward this prologue, but it would have really helped me out as a younger reader. WoT was my first real grown-up book, and I’d never encountered a prologue like the “Dragonmount” one (I was probably about 10). I was hooked after reading it, but then I flipped to chapter one, and I was so confused. None of the characters were the same, it seemed like a totally different setting (because, duh, it was), etc. I reread the prologue, then chapter one, then the prologue again, then the first chapter, and I just didn’t understand. I almost gave up the whole series right there. I know of other people who found the books at a young age and didn’t have the problem, but I certainly did. I think “Ravens” makes a lot of sense for its target audience, but I think of it as sort of more of an easter-egg-type extra personally.
subwoofer @59
Ny shared a bong with Eggy??? Mwhahahahaha. TOO funny. ROFL extensively. The visual I’m getting is just…WOW. Ah, the perils of typing on a small (phone) keyboard. ;-)
birgit @64
A version (RJ called it that in your link) of TSaSG appears in Tor’s English language BBoBA, more-or-less starting on page 44. It’s not identified as the TSAaSG, being part of Chapter 4–The Fall into Shadow–which really had me confused when I started searching the Table of Contents and Index for TSaSG. To be sure, the text of the 2 versions is not identical, but I think the essential content is much the same. Leigh can have fun deciding which version to use if she elects to include it.
I wasn’t blown away by Ravens, but it was fun to read something new and I agree it brought new depth to Egwene. I don’t see a problem with Tam’s knowledge, it is reasonable to assume that he would have heard and learned things in his travels. We also have to remember the Bran being Mayor and Innkeeper meets many travelers, but also has the most books in town which shows an appetite for knowledge.
I was initially confused, just as Leigh predicted, but it seemed interesting. It seemed to me to be forshadowing shoehorned into the story, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. I know if I had more hindsight to revise the beginning of the book series that I started later, once more things were fleshed out, I would. Stephen King did it too. When I read The Gunslinger, it was the revised version, and it all seemed to fit together well at the time, so Leigh is probably right about the first reading of a thing being the most influential to a person’s impression of thing. That’s all I’ve got for now.
I covered this chapter in my own reread. It had to be a bit of a fun challenge to return to the original material years later and insert a new chapter. “Ravens” had to have the feel of the beginning of the book, not give away anything ahead of time, while giving the backstory in immediate and simple terms to new readers. This is done by having 9 year old Egwene criss-cross the sheep shearing fields looking for Rand, and ends with Tam telling the young men the story of the Dragon in epic fashion. Tam’s story is much better than flipping to the Glossary.
Read more here:
http://greatlordofthedark.blogspot.ca/2012/01/eye-of-world-prologue-ravens.html
I started with the audiobooks. So no flipping to the glossary. I actually had the books in paperback, but did not think to go look for a glossary. Oh well, I managed.
Hello everyone, thank you Leigh for this fun reread. I also have saved the bookmark to here.
With this prologue, I’m okay, liked it as it’s like more “cannon” whatever that is.
Mat was right!!
They (women) teach that glare to girls right out of the crib.
Which leads me to mention themes. And of course issues repeated in WOT. During the reread we’ve stumbled across these themes, how men feel about women and vice versa, slavery, rape, militarism and others we could list.
I propose that in this redeux we organize these and perhaps note them during our reread with the purpose of seeing them resolved or at least expounded upon by the author(s).
One theme I’ve often wondered about was the overwhelming time spent on women’s clothes and also mens clothes whenever lace was present (or not). Any chance RJ was a cross dresser.
BTW, I’m an old guy, 66, veteran,(VFP), veggie, pet lover and tree hugger.
I didn’t care much for this prologue either, but I did like that it was from Egwene’s perspective. Rand was set up as the “main” character, yes, but ultimately the story told is nearly as much Egwene’s as it is Rand’s. All that talk of “men and women together” achieving great things in the AoL foreshadowed Egwene’s critical importance, as did the catastrophic ramifications of the men-only attack on Shayol Ghul. Rand is set up as the main character, but his quest would have failed without his female counterpart: Egwene. There was a point to the whole ying/yang motif, and it gets a nod in this prologue.
And as a side note, I thought it was kind of awesome that the male/female counterparts grew up together, but were not ultimately romantically involved. Made the ying/yang thing not a sex thing.
@JackmyDog: No, RJ was not a cross dresser. :-)
But he did have seamstresses and weavers in his family line. I asked Linda & Maria once, because of all the fiber metaphors.
However, for as much time as he spent on describing the clothes he still got a few things wrong about how fiber behaves. So some of the dresses he describes are a real nightmare for cos-players and sewers to recreate.
But if you think about Star Trek: Next Gen, what about every time Picard tugs on his shirt? If each episode was in written format (yes, I know they are), but where each tug of his shirt is mentioned, it would become as big a joke as the women smoothing their skirts are in WoT.
Trust me, after you climb off a horse while wearing a large skirt, you spend some time smoothing it out. It also became his default nervous habit for the ladies. They did not spend much time straightening or patting at their hair. A default habit I’ve seen other authors write for the ladies of their world.
I really didn’t like this new prologue. I really had the impression, in TEotW, that they didn’t know hardly anything about Aes Sedai, and what they did know had them fearful of them. The idea of Mat, years earlier, talking about “saving an Aes Sedai” and getting rewarded seems really, really off to me. When Aes Sedai are first mentioned in the village in TEotW, don’t people react with fear, shock, horror, make the sign of the evil eye or whatever?
I don’t know, I just feel like this was tacked on with some shadings of things people in the Two Rivers didn’t know, or had different opinions about, until after Our Heroes got to know Moiraine and Lan, and learned more about Aes Sedai and the world. It just felt weird and wrong to me.
I’m starting to wonder about something here. We know that it’s roughly nine years between this prologue and the beginning of the first book. In that time, Padan Fain has been coming to the Two Rivers on a regular basis, enough that he’s (sort of) trusted and known. He’s also been a primary source of stories and outside news. How much influence could his stories/slant have on the TR folk in terms of their attitude toward Aes Sedai, Dragons, etc.? He certainly wouldn’t change someone like Tam, who’s been out and seen a lot, but if Tam already had a low-ish opinion of the Aes Sedai, he’d have no reason to correct anything of that sort. (Plus he lives out of town a ways, so he’d hear less of the stuff going around and have less opportunity to correct misapprehensions.)
What do you think? Is Fain’s dark-induced agenda, carefully twisting the news and stories, enough to modify perceptions in the TR and shift them from what’s in this prologue to the attitudes we see in the main story?
That’s an interesting thought Wetlander. I understand it was for a YA release of the books but when exactly did that happen? Ah, google fu tells me this repackaging happened in 2002. Mr Rigney did love his subtleties and with the series being already past the release of Winter’s Heart, he may have already had that in mind.
I think this is a good candidate for a Maria question next time I have a chance to ask.
Either way, it doesn’t seem to be much of a stretch for Fain to introduce some dark tales into the mix. The Congers and Cenn Buie would have eaten it up with a spoon.
@88 Braid_Tug
That comparison made me so very happy :D I am a big fan of both WoT and ST:TNG, and love Picard’s uniform tug (I think I have even watched a compilation on YouTube – as well as Riker’s strange way of sitting in chairs), but had never equated it to the nuances evident in WoT. But now that you mention it, that is a fantastic comparison.
@88 and @92 – And how about Riker’s beard-smoothing? Or Data’s head tilts? Going backward, Spock’s eyebrows and Scotty’s smug looks when he’s pulled off another miracle? The visuals are very much part of the characterization – so in a book, you write them in. I don’t know about anyone else, but they really help complete my mental images of the various characters.
Wetlander @@@@@ 90
Interesting theory.
OTOH that this prologue is for YA in itself may explain the heavy-handedness of it, plus the views of the TR folk felt deeply ingrained.
On the other, I think in the TR the views towards AS, Saidar, the Dragon, etc., are more negative than elsewhere (with obvious exceptions). They are already anti-Shadow, so one would think they would have
developedaccepted a mythology to opposite it. But they haven’t- they are anti-AS too.We saw that Padan Fain had them eating out of his hand. With the AS already having certain reputation it’s not hard to imagine Fain having strong influence. Fear and suspision towards an outside group is amongst the easiest emotions to stir.
Re: mannerisms- totally in favour. This is one of the things that brings flavour and life into stories. Lets me truly visualise the characters and immerse myself in the story.
Leigh, I didn’t get a chance to properly express my gratitude at the end of the last turning of the reread. So thank you for allowing me to follow along (mostly lurking) and enjoy the journey.
Hi everyone! I know I’ve only posted 2 or 3 times but it’s good to be back, and I hope to be less shy about commenting this time. Real life decided to interfere about half-way through The Last Battle and I’m just now catching up. Whew! Now that I’m here, I see that I haven’t quite made it. Guess I’ll have to go read “Ravens” now. :)
@90, 94 re: Two Rivers folks’ views of Aes Sedai
I’m not sure. I’m not saying the “Fain subtly affects the perspective of Aes Sedai in the Two Rivers” idea doesn’t have any merits. It’s probably the best in-world explanation for the discrepancy in the perspective of Aes Sedai held by the 2R folks in the “Ravens” prologue vs the original TEotW text.
But, a negative view of Aes Sedai, the Power and the Dragon is held by a number of communities (and nations) in the series proper, before this prologue was ever written. We know that Illian is not fond of Aes Sedai, and Far Madding (and Tear, I think) are not overly fond of Aes Sedai either. Andor and Morgase are respectful of the Tower, but the 2R hasn’t considered itself part of Andor for awhile. It seems that the only countries where the predominant view of the general populace is to truly hold the Tower in high esteem are the Borderland countries where the presence of the Shadow (and the value of the Tower) can’t be ignored.
I don’t know if Fain should be given the credit of changing the 2R folks’ perceptions of Aes Sedai over a 9 year span, when the Shadow (via Ishmael) has been doing a great job of subtly affecting the world over the centuries.
90. Wetlandernw
If I had to describe this from a spymaster’s perspective, I would ask it like this:
Padan Fain has been given an intelligence-gathering assignment. He has to find boys who were born on Dragonmount close to a specific date. Now the question is, should he be given a secondary misson: spreading disinformation?
I’d say that these two missions tend to conflict. If he starts spreading stories which are significantly different from the generally accepted notions of Aes Sedai or the Dragon, it will attract attention. If he’s nosing about asking unusual questions, the last thing he wants to do is attract attention.
I’d also say that the disinformation assignment is a long-term one – in fact, the DO has been doing it successfully for three thousand years. Nasty rumors spread in Caemlyn will eventually find their way to the Two Rivers and many other places besides. He could have a hundred darkfriends spreading rumors throughout Andor if he wanted. Why risk an exceptional asset like Padan Fain (he was taken to SG after all, to improve his hunting skills) on a task that anyone else could do?
Edit to add: Hi ValMar@76! Good to see you’re still here.
KiManiak @96
“But, a negative view of Aes Sedai, the Power and the Dragon…”
I’m wracking my brain trying to recall if the western and southwestern countries also have a negative view. And I don’t recall. Amadicia and the Whitecloak’s immediate area of influence certainly do, but what about the rest of Murandy, Ghealdan and Altara? Then we head up the coast to Tarabon and Arad Doman. I’m thinking those last 2 were pretty much neutral.
This question isn’t terribly relevant in the big scheme of things, but it is a good refresher and a set up for the hunny grab.
So… I should have done this at the beginning of this particular discussion. I went back and read the first few chapters of TEotW. You know what? That general antipathy toward the Aes Sedai really doesn’t exist. Yeah, no one entirely trusts Aes Sedai, but they aren’t hated, feared and associated with the DO – except by the Congars and Coplins. Well, think about it. Who would trust a bunch of people with amazing and incomprehensible powers? No one, until they’ve been around enough of them to get sorta comfortable with the idea, and maybe seen them use those powers for good, or to help a loved one. So while there’s no general love for or confidence in Aes Sedai, there isn’t the kind of antipathy some of us were remembering.
The first 100 in the re-re-read is mine. Thank the Great Lord.
Another thing to remember is that the Two Rivers is away from the cities, thus, by definition, not metropolitan. Typically (at least in RL) rural areas tend to be wary of strangers and things they are not familiar with. The Two Rivers would not have had much (any?) experience with Aes Sedai. For eaons, the Aes Sedai (as a general rule) have acted as a sort of nationless nobility. Certainly, an elite class.
I think RJ makes it apparent very early in the series that, while Aes Sedai means “servant of all”, they are not the servant of all to the populace. Sisters may help the poor, but only if people come to the Tower. While on the road, most Aes Sedai (assuming they reveal themselves) will stay in castles or with significant nobles. This new image of the Aes Sedai in all likelihood trickles down to villages like Two Rivers.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewB
AndrewHB @100
I was tempted for almost 2 hours. Hope you meant the Creator, not the DO, if that was an in-world reference to the Great Lord. Dark Friends can’t enter The Bunker, it’s warded.
Anywho…I expect “servant of all” was more inclusive–a larger all–back in the AOL.
I’ve been marathoning your re-read Leigh, and to be honest when I finished reading this I was shocked there wasn’t a next button!
It’s been a blast, and I look forward to continuing to read your re-read redux. Thank you so much for all this hard work!
Ways @101. I am like Verin: a spy for Team Light. Or is Verin reborn not worthy of the bunker?
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewB
AndrewHB @103
I’m OK with that (speaking for myself).
Glad you grabbed the hunny and removed the temptation. I didn’t want to help set it up and then grab it myself. ;-)
re: Mat’s attitude towards Aes Sedai
Also, Mat is still a young impressionable child here and likely influenced by all kinds of stories about awesome Aes Sedai awesomely awesome-ing awesome stuff. Unlike later, when he’s an older opinionated manchild and desperately in need of a level in badassery…
The same is basically true for Rand’s cheery “I want to be
an astronautking of all Londinium and wear a shiny hat!”.So, while I think that all the foreshadowing in the new prologue is rather clumsy and on the nose because YA, I don’t think it’s against their characters…
Wetlander @@@@@ 99
So, much ado about nothing :D Most of my own books are in boxes because I’ll be moving soon and I was too lazy to dig out my EOTW copy.
Ways @@@@@ 98
Amadicia was the only hostile land to AS. IIRC, in Tear they were outlawed but as long as they didn’t draw attention to themselves were left alone. After all, girls with the spark were bundled out to Tar Valon (like Siuan) instead of killed as a witch or something.
In the rest of the lands they were rather ambivalent, very generally, and in the Borderlands outright positive.
AndrewHB @@@@@ 100
I also thought that it was natural that a place like the TR would be rather conservative (small c) and wary towards “strange outsider stuff”. We see them being very conservative about male/female relationships, though fortunately avoiding Patriarchal bull…
@92: Glad I mad you smile with the ST:TNG reference. It was the first thing that popped into my head, and I figured it was a fairly well know item in the crowd. J I need to look up that video of Picard’s shirt tugs.
@93: Very true. Those type of actions take a character from being just an outline to more real and 3D.
@99: Thanks for looking that up for us Wetlandernw!
@100, AndrewHB: Congrats on the first hunny of the Reread Redux.
Hello and welcome to all the new people. My productivity at work went down drastically when I first found the Re-read. Binge reading was fun.
ValMar @@@@@ 106: Certainly agree it is normal for the Two Rivers people to be conservative about stuff, but they merely swapped patriarchal bull…. for matriarchal bull…., as did virtually all of Randland. An extreme example, to be sure, but look at Far Madding…
I remember seeing this new prologue in the YA version of TEotW when I worked at Barnes & Noble, and of course read the summary of it on the WOT Encyclopedia. But I never actually read the full text. Looks like I’ll need to check out that link when I get the chance!
Anyway, all I can say based on what I have seen (and this thread) is that I think I can see both sides of the argument. It probably does seem heavy-handed in the foreshadowing, and odd that something as detailed as Lews Therin’s story could be told by Tam when such things are supposed to be garbled and forgotten, and it probably also seems odd and jarring to anyone who read the book without this prologue. On the other hand I can see why something like this (both in terms of imparting info without the glossary in an easier-to-understand manner and giving characters more readily identified with than Lews Therin) would be needed for young adult readers. I also think if anyone would know the story it’d be Tam (and him getting to tell it, even as it’s insane dramatic irony, is also pretty cool, sort of on a par with Moiraine’s Manetheren story), that the kids all sound in character, and that there’s a lot of fun Two Rivers atmospheric info here to justify the new prologue. I also appreciate the correction on Rand’s king comment being a joke (although it still isn’t subtle), and of course got all the feels over Perrin’s family and Egwene, and laughed aloud at Mat and Aes Sedai.
I can’t say how I’d feel if I’d gotten to read the series with this as part of the narrative, but I think it does do what it’s intended to do–introduce new young readers to the series, rather than old SF/Fantasy vets like us. ;) And the stuff with the Wisdom’s reaction to Nynaeve’s wound. her knowing where Egwene was, and the ravens was all good. As for the commentary, I have to say that while Fain couldn’t have been outright spreading disinformation (and based on Wetlander’s always-excellent research on what the text actually said, he wasn’t), it’s still possible he could have been more subtly influencing people and that the rural nature of the Two Rivers plus Ishadin influencing things for centuries could explain what little antipathy there was.
As for the west and south coast, I can’t recall details either, but I don’t recall Ghealdan being particularly against Aes Sedai (Logain obviously doesn’t count, either in terms of his own attitude or how his countrymen felt about him), although the fact Masema was as successful as he was at turning so many of his followers against Aes Sedai and the Power is suggestive. I don’t think Tarabon had any specific issues (Nynaeve and Elayne had to hide who they were because of the Black Ajah and Moghedien, not any attitudes about the Power, and Liandrin and her coven were as far as I can recall able to openly stay at the Panarch’s Palace as Aes Sedai, and this was with Whitecloaks in the city). Ituralde I seem to recall respecting Aes Sedai, but then not only is he a Great Captain and thus would have been exposed to more equitable attitudes, I always thought the Domani in general and he in particular had a Borderlander attitude about a number of things. Murandy I don’t think was ever described one way or the other, though I always got the impression its people often acted as much like Andorans as possible, both to be given the same sort of respect and acceptance and as a means of competing with them for legitimacy.
Count me among those that don’t quite like this prologue, though Leigh’s thoughts on how one first encounters a story shapes your views strongly may apply here. I realize that it was supposed to be more of an easy segue into the story for the YA crowed, but I consider this a mistake. You don’t ‘dumb down’ a masterpiece (which I consider the original prologue to be: a masterpiece of fantasy literature) to make it more palatable for children; you just let it stand on its own merrits and they will come.
I get the impression that the publisher really wanted this for business reasons and RJ, deep in the many plot strands of the later books, switched gears a little and complied. It seems to show in some of the inconsistencies others have pointed out. The story seems to be winking too much at readers already familiar with how it goes up to 2002 (or whenever this was first published) rather than the subtle allusions and foreshadowing we had in the first edition.
Also, I know Tam saw the world a bit and had more of an education than most TR folk, but I would have thouht one would have to be quite well educated (i.e. a scholar) to know the real story of the Dragon like that, not to mention telling stories like that would have been seen as unseemly in that culture (as we find out a chapter or two later), especially telling them to children.
I can sort of buy the Ravens, Ishamael need to narrow down the location before he could send in someone like Fain, afterall. But how were the Ravens supposed to track down the Dragon? Did they have some sort of “spidey sense”? There does not seem to be anything that would denote any type of signs to even an informed observer. I guess minions of Darkness just kind of get a ‘feel’ for it. Also I believe it is the visiting Aes Sedai who inform Abel and Tam about the Ravens being the Dark One’s ‘eyes’.
Hello, all and I am so happy to see so many of Leigh’s Loonies back!
I cannot tell you what a pleasure it is to see the Re-reread finally begin, even if it’s not with the original prologue that began my journey.
But now to the topic at hand…
I for one am actually quite comfortable with the level of knowledge shown by Tam al’Thor, blademaster, former Second Captain of Ilian’s Companions, and veteran of the Whitecloak and Aiel Wars.
One of the few regrets I have about TWOT is that we are only given a small glimpse into a life that was most likely fascinating and full of adventure.
Which Aes Sedai did he meet while at the court of the Golden Bees?
Who trained him to the level where he could defeat a blademaster and become a blademaster himself?
It doesn’t surprise me that a man with his inquisitive mind with access to the resources available in the one of the most cultured lands in RL would have learned as much of the real history of the world as he could, leaving behind the garbled tales that filtered to the little backwater town of his birth.
It also doesn’t surprise me that he would impart his knowledge to the only individuals around whose minds were still open enough to not immediately dismiss this as nonsense, the youth.
Remember, he is perhaps the only resident of the Two Rivers who not only knows that Trollocs and Fades are real, but knows what they are like; he has seen true Aes Sedai, and doubtless seen them use the One Power.
A few observations:
@32 AndrewHB @41 AeronaGreenjoy re: the cover. It is not Moraine on the cover and, with a prologue from Egwene, it is likely that we are seeing Rand, Egwene, and Bela – awww.
@RobMRobM, et al, re: Doral’s look of disappointment: I read this to mean that Doran was not disappointed in Nynaeve’s work or jealous. The Wisdom is elderly. Her last apprentice died 3 years earlier from Power Manifestation Fever, which is why she took on Nynaeve. At this point in the story, in the past number of months, bonebreak fever ravished the TR; Nynaeve was orphaned when her mother died; Nynaeve Healed Egwene’s fever and survived the resultant fever; and Nynaeve was permitted to braid her hair so she is almost 17 (a year younger than Elisa.) The Wisdom watches Nynaeve like a hawk despite 3 years stellar performance as an apprentice and refuses to send her away when Nynaeve’s mother died, resisting pressure from the Women’s Circle, and she’s successful because Nynaeve is of age and has proved herself. I suspected the Wisdom ‘s scrutiny was in fear that she would lose Nynaeve as she did the last apprentice. Perhaps she was disappointed because the wound was already better than it should have been. Nynaeve tells Moraine later in the book that she always knew when her healings were going to work…and she was satisfied after bandaging Bili C.
@50 TheCavalier, et al, re: the ravens’ behavior. I thought the DO’s forces were on constant surveillance for any evidence of male channeling or male outliers. I might be misremembering but I thought there were stories where any males found to experience unexpected good luck were targeted, along with their male relatives. Was there not a story about a young man who had extremely good fortune only to die, along with all his male kin, in a barn fire (arranged by DFs.) It makes sense to send out scouts on Shearing Day. It is one of only 5 times per year that every resident of the TR (except Taren’s Ferry) get together and they are all outside where they are easily observed.
The ravens might have observed 3 outliers: Matt is the smallest of all his age group. Perrin is the tallest and stockiest of his age group – though we know his father is quite slender and there is no hint that his mother or siblings are “stocky”. And Rand’s hair and eye color set him apart from everyone. But none of that is enough to trigger actionable suspicion for DFs. With no overt channeling or crazy luck from any of the boys or men, they flew away.
A few more observations:
@105 Randalator The
astronautLondonium quote made me chuckle.@90 Wetlander, et al, re: negative perception of Aes Sedai and the Power. I felt this prologue depicted Aes Sedai as respected and a bit revered. Egwene thinks that Tam had better tread softly in blaming Aes Sedai for The Breaking or being Forsaken or he would receive an unpleasant visit from the Women’s Circle.
I assume male channeling would still be regarded with fear in the TR.
But I think Mat was just one-upping Rand’s “Oh, I just can’t wait to be king.” with “I am going to rescue a Channeling Superpowered Aes Sedai.” Insert punch in the shoulder.
It’s odd that the other books had colored my expectations (along with those of others) that the entire TR would display antipathy for Aes Sedai or warders. Granted, the TR hasn’t seen an Aes Sedai in generations but, when they arrive, they are treated with awe and with no more suspicion than any other ‘outlander’. I supposed it sets a baseline so we appreciate how much Matt, Rand and others change throughout the series.
Ravens is bursting with details that are important later in the series or foreshadow things to come, far too many to call out. A few of the fun ones for the guys were:
“…seem less like a heron ready to take flight.”
“…like a swooping falcon”
“No one knows anything about those battles” – Tam talking about the Great Battles of the past.
Oh, so many more…
Avlonnic, good observations! I also had the same impression regarding the current Wisdom and Nyn, though less detailed. I.e. that she saw Nyn being “too good” a healer and this very often meant painful death for the poor girl.
@1 RobMRobM Matchmaking = one of the world’s oldest activities. It does appear that the matchmaking takes place fairly early in some circumstances in the TR. In a village this small, selection is limited. It is likely the Women’s Circle decided Rand would be the best match for Egwene and vice versa. Then the message was passed around. Rand remembers later how he never danced with anyone but Egwene or one of her loyalest friends after he heard they were expected to be a couple.
It does not appear this happens for everyone, however, because Elisa and the Coplin girl have no apparent “matches”. Nor did Nynaeve. Perhaps the Council had great expectations for Egwene and Rand – or Egwene’s mom made a strong claim on him for her daughter.
IIRC, we learn later that most of the women and some of the men participate enthusiastically and independently regarding Tam’s own bachelorhood.
Padan Fain wouldn’t have been able to change people’s views on Aes Sedai. The Two Rivers are just too stubborn. But at the same time, lots of backwater places have deep seated prejudices and suspicions about people like the Aes Sedai. And we learn they’re not entirely undeserved. Even Tam, as worldly as he is, keeps them at arms length, what more for superstitious country hicks?
On the other hand, even Tam, worldly as he is, recognizes that they were, and can be a powerful force for good. As long as they were properly motivated.
The story itself, I don’t think it contradicts the later series proper all that much. After all, the series makes it always a point to color each chapter with the prejudices of the person whose POV it is told from. What is one story told to you when you were nine, compared to the constant reinforcement of women only Aes Sedai and evil insane male False Dragons?
Avlonnic @116
Some of the Women’s Circle no doubt thought of pairing Nynaeve off. The problem is that as the Wisdom’s apprentice, and later the Wisdom herself, Nynaeve ranks highly in the same Circle. And we know how much of a bully Nynaeve can be. No gaggle of old ladies, not even the ones she preside over, will ever force her to marry if she doesn’t want to.
Everyone@everywhere above;
Thanks to WDWParksGal@34 I read the full text of ‘Ravens’ before deciding to comment.
Like most of you I started with the original EotW. I thought at the time that its prologue was perhaps the single best piece of springboard SF writing I had ever read. A transcendant visceral WOW moment in the mind’s eye similar to the endlessly passing battleship in my physical eyes at the beginning of Star Wars 4. I re-read it three times before I actually moved on to Chapter One. Even as I moved on through the series I periodically returned to that one passage as a sort of- anchor. And it seems that is what you are all getting at, it has that effect on all of us who started there.
Having said that- I also like “Ravens’ as a prologue, or pre-prologue if you will, providing it doesn’t replace the original. It’s my understanding it does not. It probably does soften the initial shock of what immediately follows and that isn’t of necessity a bad thing.
It reminded me of the way I grew up in similar- um- unpretentios places- er ok, backwaters? Even today, living in an area with a pervasive Amish presence and influence, I can’t help but think the people I know, Amish or not, would fit right in this scene. As would I. Sure, they’d call it a “frolic” rather than a sheep shearing but the scene is set up the same- even to the characters, Amish or the folkes I grew up with. Therein lies the power of this simple scene for me, identification.
While the original (1st) prologue to EotW is a big blast of WOW that blows me away, I don’t identify with it nearly as much as the well set pastoral interlude of ‘Ravens’. Whether or not you came through the door to the WOT that way or the original, the contrast with the- horror? of what follows is the thing to be contemplated. What happens when the apocoplypse comes to YOUR doorstep? How do you live, or die with the reality of your worst fears being realized? What happens to your familiar life and all you love? Those are relevant questions that I believe RJ was/IS asking himself and us.
Even knowing how the series ends, the important thing is not to be parsing the events and characterizations here, but to ask yourselves, given a similar battle against ULTIMATE EVIL(tm)- Where would I fit in? Which character am I?
Thx2593 @118
Nicely put.
AnotherAndrew @37 Try saying to’raken really fast out loud. What does that sound like?
edit: I see that LordJuss @75 pointed this out too
In general, reading this for the first time, I feel that there is some incongruity with the cathechism of “The Dark One and the Forsaken were bound at the beginning of time”. If people knew about LTT locking the Forsaken away, that wouldn’t make a lot of sense, would it?
The characters here seem too knowledgable by far, that includes Mat with his remark about Aes Seday (agree with Lsana @44).
I do not like the inclusion of the ravens. Seems too much attention, too long before the actual narrative starts. 7 years is a long time to do nothing about a supposed threat (the Dark Side started killing babies right after the Foretelling that Moiraine and Siuan heard)
7 years is also a long time for an eleven-year-old to get over his daydreams of being a king, instead of a simple village boy. I’m positive that I went through a whole bunch of career choices when I was a kid. Kids think of crazy stuff!
Overall, I think I prefer the original to this prologue, because there’s more symmetry to the actual narrative starting with Rand.
I was actually introduced to the series with the YA friendly edition (I was around 12 or 13 at the time) and I can’t say that I’ve ever read this prologue all the way through. I think I just flipped through the middle bits–not even skimming–because I remember Egwene carrying water, and I remember Tam telling the story of the Dragon but nothing else. I’ve started my second attempt at a reread of the series this past week (my last attempt ending in the middle of book 7) and I thought I could read “Ravens” all the way through but I couldn’t, certainly as a hook to get you into the book and the series I think Dragonmount is much more effective. I think you need a little more context in order to care about Egwene’s thoughts about water-carrying. I mean it’s water-carrying and sheep-shearing for God’s sake!
On this reread I also can’t help thinking “Ravens” is a little symptomatic of the later books of the series where it’s just a lot of detail and minutiae without much plot progress.